I beg to differ. Today is a great day for Malibu Lagoon and all the wildlife that calls it home. The people that are implementing the project are some of the most passionate conservationists I've ever known.

What 3rd point Wave ? Third point has been deteriorated to funky close out on south swells since 1983 when the floods filled in the low spots between 2nd a 3rd with cobblestones .

The voters of California voted for this bond and the bond money has to be used for California water way improvement Projects or else it goes to another project elsewhere We are lucky ! Democracy at work .
Do not Blame the Mayor for selling out to Scientist ,It is doubtful that the mayor would have been able to sway the Judge if he had been opposed to this project
This is a good day for the future the Pacific Flyovers of water fowl and Wildlife for generations to come will have a more ideal habitat to nest and be more free of Humans impeding in an ecosystem that has been dwindling due to human encroachment . The Mullets and the Gobies will have an improved lagoon ecosystem and The Steel Head may once again want to make a come back once the non natives are removed and humans are restricted and a better circulating water environment has been restored . The Osprey will be re-introduced which if you have not have had the chance to watch them hunt is really a treat to witness .
Had I thought this project would have jeopardized the waves at Surfrider I would have been selfisly opposed , But since I strongly feel this project will not impact the surf , I am all for improving the long term habitat for lagoon creatures for generations to come , Water fowl and fish don't need humans blasting their boom boxes or cheetos feeding kids walking through their bedrooms . Remolding out poor designs is chaotic for awhile but also worthwhile for the long term .

Democracy at work ??? you have to be kidding me.
At the Coastal Commission hearing one of the commissioners also sat on the Santa Monica Bay Restoration Commission and he took himself out of the vote, yet when we had this as an agenda item the Mayor Siebert refused to do the same. His conflict of interest and totally biased position of this project is not the kind of democratic process that I want. Jeff Wagner wouldn't completely oppose it because he wanted the money for his own ulterior plan. Had he been forced to simply oppose or support without trying to scam the money his own way and if siebert had taken himself out of the vote it would have been 2 to 1 to oppose. Instead he passed on letting the vote roll over to the next council meeting when Rosenthal would be there. She STILL hasn't taken a position !
Another great example of Democracy...Malibu Surfing Association's support was a letter written by Two of the members without a club vote that they wrote on "behalf of MSA and The Malibu Surfing Community".....Democratic process ??
Surfrider Foundation West LA/ Malibu Chapter has a 7 member board , only 2 of which surf and of the 2 only one was in support of the project. There was no Surfrider Foundation membership vote...if you are stupid enough to give them money they have supported this on your behalf.
Same with Heal the Bay. When members pay for little fish skeleton stickers did they get a say ? They support themselves getting paid..TRUE DEMOCRACY!!!

Again, Andy , THE Voters of California Voted on this Bond Issue because they saw it as an important matter . As hard as it seems , the Taxpayers voted their hard earned money to improve California waterways . Voting IS a Democratic Majority process . Your side is in the Minority and the judge judged it that way also ! Obstructionist loose , Generations of wildlife Win !

The voters may have voted on the bond money, but they didn't vote on this project.Just because you get a credit card in the mail doesn't me you have to start spending on it.
There was major lobbying by the proponents to acquire the bond money for this project and the rush to get this project done now is because it would be returned, as it should. Last year they tried to make the claim that if it hadn't started last June that the lagoon 'would be beyond repair'. Are you kidding me ? Go look at the lagoon and then tell me that it is now beyond repair . Steve don't tell me about future flyovers...they are there NOW in HUGE numbers. All this propaganda to make people think the place void of life...terrible.

Hey you want to get together and have a beer? Maybe put all this name calling and nastiness behind us? Maybe would could just sit down, act like adults, discuss the issues, and see if we could call some sort of truce? Or we could just have a duel!

Dear Wendi, First, I resent your condescending attitude. Second, if you had ever bothered to READ the Malibu Lagoon Restoration Plan, you would know that the use of Round Up or any other herbicide was NEVER suggested. Why would anyone spray herbicides BEFORE they start construction? That was part of a boiler plate Coastal Commission permit that was removed as soon as the proponents realized it was included. You are welcome to take credit, but in reality you had nothing to do with it. Finally, where do you come up with this "TENS OF MILLIONS" of dollars? You know it is OK to oppose a project but you shouldn't "enhance" the truth to make a point.

Jack,
Were you not at the CCC meeting on this when they voted for it and took the Round up out of the plan less than a week before the vote ?

Yeah ! I say Occupy Sacramento for atleast a year til you get your way . I have an extra tent if you need one !

Dear Wendi,
The Governor has NO LEGAL authority to "pull the bond money." However, you should feel free to go up to Sacramento and occupy the capital!

Wendi ~ thank you for reminding people that this is an OPEN-ENDED permit. an experiment and if it does not work the way they want it to -- they can come in and dredge/bulldoze again and again and again! I've *never* - in nearly 20 years - seen a permit like this issued by the Coastal Commission. Bond money gone wild. I will NEVER vote for another bond that provides money to the Coastal Conservancy, State Water Board or Wildlife Conservation Board. Not when they have approved funds for such a destructive project. I was a big supporter of these bonds and had no idea they would be misused like this.

John ~ Thank you for your kind, welcoming comments. We know that there are many hundreds of people in Malibu who now understand and appreciate Malibu Lagoon because the light has been shined on this previously mostly ignored special place in the heart of the city. We also know that there are very big stakes here, including for the guy writing as "Jack" - who - given what he has said, indicates he has been paid to work on this project for a number of years..."When the people lead, the leaders will follow".....eventually - sometimes it takes a bit of time to get their attention. We will need EVERYONE who has a heart for wildlife, for the Malibu surf, for public access and for children's nature education to get involved. From *last* October to May we created miracles. More are on the horizon for this October through May!

The judge had a heart for wildlife , The public who voted for this will still have access to the beach and the Children's Workshop tours will soon get to view an area of the Lagoon's wildlife that is not Bisected by human intrusion from the viewing Platform and the surf at 3rd point can't get worse than it is now which means it can only get better . Now Malibu needs to work on upgrading outdated septic systems and we need to turn our attention to slowly dismantling the Rindge dam and stopping Winter discharges from Tapia

John, it's sad to see a community so divided. Your comment appears to fuel that dissention but you do not state whether you are for or against this project. Could you please shed light on your views by stating whether or not you think this is a good or bad project and why?

This post is so last week. Sayonara Dude.

Thanks Jonathan, but I don't recall calling anyone names. I'm really sorry if I mis-spelled a name. However, I'm wondering why that's "odd" So are you saying I'm some sort of crackpot for a mis-spelling? Is saying that someone is spoiled, or foul mouthed considered taboo on Patch? Please accept my appologies. I had no idea that Andy was the only person that had 1st ammendment rights on this site.

Jack

8:45pm on Thursday, October 27, 2011

Andy, you are nothing but a spoiled, foul-mouthed, rich little Malibu brat. Incapable of controlling your mouth.

Why haven't all of Jonathon's posts been deleted?

"I ask that everyone go to the lagoon and look at it...don't take the word of these scumbags that are milking Millions of Dollars , your tax dollars, to do this project."
I pretty much stand by this one and if you feel that it was personally directed at you like your comment to me was, well then that is your conscience speaking .

Yes Andy, I feel that because I support the project your comment was directed at me. And I stand by my comment as well, it was certainly directed at you. My conscience is perfectly clear and I will sleep well tonight knowing that Malibu Lagoon will finally be restored!

Jack,
when was the last time you were at the lagoon?
And restored to what? NOTHING in the plan is a restoration by the definition of the word. It is an enhancement right? like breast enhancement.
Is your last name topel ?

Jack Topel , right ? you posted on the LA Times blog ? that's you? if so that is a great pic of you on your facebook with a dead turkey you shot .

Wow Andy, I don't even know how to reply to this. What does my turkey hunting have to do with Malibu Lagoon? Anyway, yes my last name is Topel. I work (proudly) for the Santa Monica Bay Restoration Commission. Please feel free to direct all hate mail to jacktopel@yahoo.com I'm sure many of you are licking your chops thinking how you can get me in trouble. Please feel free to take your best shot. However, I feel that I am as entitled to express my opinion on this site as anyone else. Maybe that helps you understand how hurtful it is to be called a scumbag. I have spent my career trying to protect and preserve the environment, as have my friends and co-workers. Just because you think you're right, doesn't mean that we are evil. Rest assured I have not made one dime on this project. In fact I have had to live with reduced benefits, furloughs, and pay cuts for the last several years. I do what I do because I love places like the lagoon and want to protect them for my daughter and grandson to enjoy in the future. Thanks for "outing" me though. At least I know that my Thanksgiving turkey didn't originate in the frozen foods section at Whole Foods. I'm sure that all of you will be enjoying your TOFURKEY this holiday season.

Jack,
You didn't answer the question of when you were at the lagoon last. Maybe you should go there today, right now this morning as the tide is filling the whole thing up and you can stand on one of the bridges as the tide turns and witness the lagoon doing its thing as it cleanses itself. You could stand there and celebrate that you had a hand in destroying what has taken nearly 30 years to right itself.
'reduced benefits, furloughs, and pay cuts'.... the competition for scamming bond money for make work projects must be fierce and then to find some functiong habitat to destroy with them even harder I would imagine.
I wouldn't be so sure the gravy train is going to roll Jack .
THIS IS FAR FROM OVER !!!

Fresh Turkey tastes much better than store-bought. The last time I ate fresh wild turkey was when my forestry crew in Mendocino County was driving home at the end of the work day. A wild turkey ran in front of our truck. The driver slammed on the brakes in an effort to not harm it. He jumped out and found it lying dead on the road. It was uninjured but apparently died of fright (turkeys are a very sensitive bunch). We took it home, removed the feathers, and baked it. Again, the best tasting turkey of my life. Anyone have a problem with this?

What a hoot! Funny that you thought this judge was so wise and informed when you got your injunction. Now he's "confused" and doesn't understand the issue when the FACTS are presented! By the way, I go by the name of "Jack" because that's my name. And yes, I'm making BILLIONS of dollars on this project. BTW how much have YOU made off this baseless lawsuit? Do you still plan to soak Malibu residents for more cash to apeal?

This is so true. The Mayor said it was out of their hands...yes , they handed it away.
So many in Malibu still are confused and for the Mayor to have shelved the agenda item without a proper vote while continuing to support the project and refusing to put it back on the agenda shows that his allegiance was to the project, not the city he represents.

OK, point taken. You are absolutely right. I guess I've been as caught up as anyone in the moment. I apologize to Andy and anyone else that I may have offended. I should have taken the high road and not let my emotions get the best of me. Am I forgiven? Please don't ban me from Patch :)

It is true that of all the people that Opposed this project , a majority of them Opposed it !

Apologies for the incorrect date of the meeting! I have no idea when the next meeting will be and of course September is long gone. After repeatedly contacting the RCDSM I still have yet to hear back about when the next meeting will be. I have sent several emails and gotten no reply. My guess is that even though this meeting is on record as being public, a select few are actually invited. Anyone who opposes harm to our environment by way of physical destruction such as bulldozers or by way of pesticides should attend these meetings. Email Melina Watts and ask her to put you on the list. She just may return your email.

Great Point Chip , The WDF had no plan to rid the lagoon of the toxic sludge with "Benzene and other fun stuff leeched from Texaco / shell staion and all the Scotts lawn builder chemical runoff from the golf course " but the Restoration deals with it by getting rid of that AND the Cal Trans fill and all the Non Natives AND contours the channels promoting better circulation for micro organizms that need oxygen rich water when the lagoon is in a CLOSED Berm Situation !
So you want to Bulldoze the houses off Colony beach ? Andy and the Rapf family might not like that idea , and don't think that plan will fly !

SIEBERT OUT ! It is clear he has sided with the money against Malibu.

WAGNER OUT ! Not as clear to most, but just as bad. His refusal to completely oppose the project that he knows and said is wrong just to try and hold on to the bond money for a different project that is just as damaging to the lagoon. I'd have to say that he is even worse than Siebert because it is very clear that Siebert is with the SMBRC , but Wagner is trying to fool everyone with this 'alternative plan' of his that is just to get the serra guard shack trade for the strip of his so called 'pepperdine peninsula' that the state wants to put a parking lot on.
Had he not confused everyone with his 'plan' , Malibu would have been more focused in fighting this. He shouldn't even be on the council anyways, his house is outside city limits and is supposed to live in his surf shop 5 days a week as a condition of being on the council ???

And The City PAID $150k for the USGS study that showed that it was from the birds and our Mayor argues against the findings ?? The same report would also be used in a lawsuit against the septic ban and the sewer project , but no... full steam ahead on that project as well ??? Time to wake up Malibu !!

the problem is the science and the creation, design and planned execution of the project. they want to create something that isn't natural. there shouldn't be any project here at all. all the work needs to be done up stream.

Because the Bond funds were voted by the Taxpayers of California , the Law requires it must be spent on the approved ballot measure . Like it not , that's the deal .

What is natural ? Not the thousands of cubic feet of Cal Trans fill that was pushed around in the 1983 amateur botch job of the ill conceived project , The Benzene and golf course fertilizers you mentioned in the sludge isn't from the Chumash and those bridges bisecting what little is left for habitat due to human encroachment is not Natural . What is natural is that the waves at 2nd and 3rd have long been ruined from Mother Nature and it will be Mother Nature that will one day rearrange the cobblestones into perhaps a better wave than Malibu has ever known regardless of any restoration to the west side of the Main channel .

It is going to be a holding tank for the future sewer . The legacy park is already purple piped to take the waste water there and there has to be an emergency release pipe from the treatment center , which is going to be somewhere right in the civic center area, when there is a power outage or some overflow due to excessive rain. Tapia has done the exact same thing since it was built....dumping raw during heavy rains or power failures.
Steve , I'm really glad you support this dredging project. You can bla bla bla all you like , Malibu people are not willing to give up and I guess that is why you are still trying to sell this project.

The lagoon already is a holding tank for discharges of Leaky septics in the Civic Center and Cross Creek Area . It almost sounds like you would be in support of Sewering to prevent any illegal or emergency discharges from getting into the Lagoon and out to our beaches

Because you never understnad anything Steve. The current lagoon doesn't hold anywhere near what the propossed lagoon will when it is dugout to 9 feet deep all the way back to the golf course. There is no way to calculate how many more millions of gallons of water(?) it will hold.
Heal the Bay is pushing the lagoon project AND the sewer project with the same reasons, that the lagoon and surfrider are polluted from leaching septics. And when the USGS showed that the problem wasn't humans but birds our city council didn't decide to oppose either project.
This was brought up at the April ,2011 council meeting when Izbicki brought in the findings....you can watch it on video. And when Pam Ulich asked for some clarity Siebert quickly says that he has left and that they already asked so many questions of him. But then the slide pops up and he the allows a guy from SMBRC to decipher the data , he wasn't a speaker that night, yet he let him give his opinion of data that wasn't his . I've asked and was told that that move was very unusal. Here we had a report that cost $150k that was paid for by the city that would argue against the septic ban and the lagoon project and our Mayor kaboshed it !!

Oh - and that guy that Andy is talking about who came up to talk, even though he was not an expert on the topic - he no longer works for the Santa Monica Bay Restoration Commission/Foundation (it is the private nonprofit foundation who paid him, the Foundation's President until two years ago was from Chevron!) - he now is working for a consulting firm who is being hired to help the Bay Commission do a similar project - only MUCH BIGGER! - at the Ballona Wetlands near Marina del Rey. More bulldozing. Of course.

I agree, Andy. This unfounded perception of people who live here and who sacrifice on many levels to do so is disturbing. Yes, it's beautiful here - but most of us are in endlessly stressful fights to keep it this way. As were the generations before us. We drive long distances to work, go through mudslides, fires, lose of our pets to coyotes and rattle shakes. By far the majority are people with average incomes working very hard to live here -

Malibu attracts passionate people who work endlessly to protect her. HOW else do people think that a city within a stones throw of LA has stayed so open and rural? Hard, hard work. It's a rare gem of a city, a miracle - really. I really don't appreciate the distorted bias against the people who live here as shown by this comment . . .

That's great, glad Jack did that! But really, it's not just Jack's statement but this weird perception that many people seem to have about us. I think it's important for people who live here to try to correct it - because it's so off base! :)

This is part of the discussion though... Here is the guy responsible for procuring the funds for this project that works for the Santa Monica Bay Restoration Commission who is in charge of the project making a statement like this about our city. And our Mayor sits on this Santa Monica Bay Restoration Commission as well and has clearly sided with the project and those that are doing it.

I'm sure that the bosses on this project were appalled by not only Jack's comments, but those of Matt Horn, who is possibly a potential contractor on this project and who posted some extremely inflammatory remarks on the LA Times blog site where this topic was being discussed. I printed those comments out this morning, and now they are not present, although you can tell they HAD BEEN there, as others were writing in response to this guy. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/10/malibu-lagoon-restoration.html
Seems like not too many good winners on their team. It's ok though - it's only a temporary victory. The Lagoon will NOT be bulldozed. I *love* Ted Vaill's vision he articulated. Who are the candidates for the new Pro-Lagoon, Pro-Surfbreak, Pro-bridge trail City Council?

I haven't seen too many surf films with waves showing the world Famous 2nd and 3rd points lately , But Maybe that is because the locals are really really guarded . Still a $100 dollars for the first video footage of the famous world class waves , and I know what world class waves look like .

This is exactly what I am talking about . Somebody makes a claim and thats that ,without questioning the truth . Hook line and sinker

Someone makes a claim??
Ok then Steve...
Should we listen to Mark Abramson who told me he was going to protect the wave by placing the 4 trees that are going to be cut down in the creek in an attempt to 'point' the creek in the right direction ?
He has NEVER surfed and is one of the lead guys of the project.
Or Bob Purvey who hasn't surfed for how long ?? he says 6 years but I can't even remember him there in the last 15 years.
Or you ?? how often are you there? you have given up short boarding for the last 10years plus so really what do you care if 3rd comes back. It almost seems as if you get some sort of joy out of the fact that it isn't what it could be. Your days of progressing your surfing I guess are behind you and aren't too concerned to do what would actually help the wave there for future surfers.
Go ask ANYONE that surfs there what the solution for the wave is and they will all say the same....PUT THE BREACH AT THE TOP. That's where it is right now and the sand is being laid up as we speak in the right places, but you are such a debbie downer and mister negative you can't be happy that we will have a chance to actually have the creek pointed in the right direction at the beginning of the season for once so that when the rain does come it will be forced to send things straight out. Until then it is pulling out sand and making a really nice sand bar... oh that's right that isn't the cobbles of '69 but are you so opposed to surfing a sand bar point ???

The creek is supposed to flow STRAIGHT OUT TO SEA .
How is one of the biggets watersheds supposed to flow all the way down from the valley and not flow into the sea ??? I'll tell you how ....you dig a big 9 foot deep hole at the end of the line . And if you don't think that messing with the velocity of the creek flow by widening the lagoon 9 feet deep from the golf course wall to the edge of the Adamson house, well then I don't know what else to say to you.
And when that huge body of water is closed to the sea the prevailing winds will push the water to breach by the Adamson house and when that does with that lakes worth of water ...forget about it. DONE.

Andy,, that $100 offer is for you too if can show me some current world class footage of 3rd . Back in the day you would never catch us surfing 1st point because 1st point was inferior to 2nd and 3rd . Yes the breach should be at 3rd but that has nothing to do with the restoration project , The breach is dictated by Nature or the Midnight shovel brigade

Wave quality? The 60s? The 70s?

Try 1947:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-9sFzwMWSE

Look at that first shot.

Top of Third to past the front of the pier.

No sections.

A south swell Rincon.

There's your wave quality.

The 100 dollar offer extends to you and Steve . If Steve D says the waves at 2nd and 3rd have not deteriorated since the 70's then somebody is not telling the truth . Steve and I have had many conversations about the long gone glory days of 2nd and 3rd ,Maybe you can produce current footage of the world class waves at 2nd and 3rd . Pictures are worth a thousand untruthful words . show the world and the world will see that you are telling the truth . Enough BS !

I just put up a recent pic...while not world class it is a nice 3rd point left which hasn't been there in a long time.
Hard to pull a world class wave out of nowhere without a swell but with the setup now we have a chance. But what is the point talking to you Steve.
I like the video that is attached to this patch also...shows all the birds enjoying the channels .

Almost the beaches in Southern California are shrinking . Most of the watersheds in California have been manipulated by asphalt , concrete culverts , dams , Storm drains so very little natural sediment is actually getting to replenish our beaches , Broad beach is case in point ,, But maybe you have it on good authority That Steve D . Says that Broad beachs disappearing beach is due to the breach point at first point Surfrider .
Expect Beaches to further erode

Too many times since the 20's the lagoon has breached at the inside of first . I have pictures to prove it .

And I have witnessed it breaching into first way before 1983 !

There is a photo in the offices of Lou Busch Jr taken around 1930 showing the creek running in front of Adamson House and breeching exactly where it does now.

I'm not saying that's the way it should be - it should breech straight out - but nature is random and creeks and rivers go where they want to go. Even back then, sometimnes it went straight out, sometimes it bent to the east.

The natural design of Malibu Lagoon is flawed. There is not enough rainffall and flow water to cleanse it year around, and the closed sandbar berm blocks it six months out of the year.

Forget about human inputs and septic tanks and stormwater runoff - hundreds and thousands of birds deposit many tons of fecal matter over six months - and it stagnates and fester in the closed lagoon.

If nature needs help, create a permanent breech - exactly where it is now - and let tidal forces do what rain and stream flow can't.

Just try it. If it doesn't work, then do something else. But just do the permanent breech for one year, see if it fixes the lagoon.

So simple.

Somebody show me a photo of the creek running up against the Adamson House in July like it did this summer. Steve show me one photo of it breaching inside of the Adamson house...all the way inside by the volleyball court like it has done recently. Somebody Show me a photo of a huge body of water back there in the middle of summer like it has been since they did this the first time.
I've seen the photo Ben is talking about and the creek bending towards 1st is way out to sea. That is after the main thrust of the storm as the storm water starts to slow down it can't keep pushing over the newly formed sand/cobble bar and then the creek just bends inside of the sand bar and then stops flowing all together.
Steve... when you say that all the water in there doesn't matter , that's a joke. That thing at capacity going out in the wrong direction digs a trench so deep that it can't undo itself. And then the constant trickling of water keeps it there. So when this thing is dug out the way they want to do it....I can't imagine the damage to the point if it was to go out sideways... a sand bar in the pier??
And Ben... a permanent breach would be nice but I would just really like to see a designated point that if the breach starts to go past the beach tractors push sand to redirect it up the beach. They put sand berms up at zuma to protect the lifeguard towers, why not at Malibu? To keep it permanently open would involve boulders and that would never be allowed.

The main objective of this plan is for " INCREASED WATER CAPACITY" .
Why would anyone want that thing to hold more water ???
It's finally going to be the Quarter Deck Club back there.

Do you remember in 1986 when the gravel /rock island was formed inside first making an impossible section and screwed it up for a few years until the natural currents and swells groomed the point back to perfection ? That year the the creek flowed out at the volley ball courts , I remember clearly because I bet Roger Kelly $25 dollars that it would take aleast a year to erase the bar island that you had to wade to at the Volley ball courts

It's $100 on a dead horse.

Hurry be the first !

I was talking about your argument steve.
I just love that you keep saying the wave is dead . You would think that you , someone that has enjoyed so many days surfing there , would try and repay the wave by trying to do something positive instead of just constantly saying its junk and nothing could make it worse... what a lame attitude to have.

Hey I can't lie and pretend to live in the past . When the best surfers in the world used to come to Malibu from the 1970 - 1985 or so they didn't come to surf 1st point . They came to surf 3rd or 2nd because it was a vastly superior wave , Yeah, we would ride 1st point but usually only as a means to transport yourself in after a long go- out on the outside points . Today when the worlds best pros show up where do they surf ? Allen is rarely ever seen at third , Joel Tudor , Ryan Condor , Donny Wilson . Schaffer , Reno Abeilero , and too many others .And I would say that I usually see you Andy at 1st point also ,, I have yet to see Kelly Slater go out at 3rd point , he always surfs 1st point , Now why is this ? Why aren't the best pros in the world moving here to surf 3rd and 2nd points like other World class waves in the world ,, well maybe because it it not presently a world class wave out there , yeah there is the odd flukey one now and then that you can get a few turns on before it closes out or one that connects through from 3rd to 2nd and the odd one that can come through from 2nd into 3rd , but a world class wave has better than a 1% excellent wave count during a swell . I have great memories of Enjoying those magical days , It is positive to accept the truth,, that the only permanent thing is change . Articulating a need for the breach to be at the top while making a healthier habitat for all the wildlife is not a Lame attitude !

Why not just work on having the breach where it should be when it needs to be open, reduce the amount of water that the lagoon holds and get new non-biased water testing of the lagoon water by people that aren't responsible for also doing the project.
There is no guarantee where the lagoon will breach under this plan, that should have been the first thing considered when trying to fix it.

In that case it is a VERY UN BIASED beautiful video of the birds enjoying the lagoon!
haha

A bulldozer was used to grade the foundation where you are residing Ms. DeClario and organisms were DESTROYED , KILLED, or MURDERED as you say . The road you drive on was bulldozed and killed countless critters , your radiator has a collection of death in its cooling vents .
I respect the fact that Jack like the Chumash experiences the hands on karma and spiritual experience of killing his own Turkey , I, myself will not eat an animal that I am not willing to kill gut and , Clean , I do not eat beef because I will not kill a cow first hand , I will not kill or eat a sheep pig or lamb , . I find it deplorable that people will eat an animal for which they have not partaken in its death at least once . Instead they pay someone else to kill and dress their food without having to deal with the ritual of the life exchange . The Restoration Project has extraordinary steps in minimizing any loss of life in exchange for creating an ecosystem that will allow more life forms to flourish than their is now for future generations to come instead of the slow decay that a cancer patient has to suffer

Thank you so much Jonathan. At the last meeting I attended I did put my name on the list for future meetings but never got word. Because I missed the first meeting I did send a couple of emails but never did hear back so I assumed I was not welcome.
I am actually not on facebook but I do have friends that use it often, I will spread the word. Thank you!
A

hugh ? Can you equate these Quotes to the Lagoon ?

or was it just the permit that was up for renewal that they wanted to get ??
STEAL THE BAY !!

Steve...you are funny,
"i bow in reverence to her plans and accept her plan" are Heal the Bay / SMBRC the agents for Mother Nature ?
Patience ??? it has taken nearly 30 years for the lagoon to recover from the first hack job to look natural and balance out.
Please show me a pre 1983 mid summer closed berm photo with a lake behind the colony that reaches all the way across to the adamson house or for that matter anytime of the year. None exist like the current closed berm lagoon prior to 1983...none.
"When the lagoon receives more water than it can hold , it breaches at the lowest point on the sand berm ." .... Steve, when they dig it to 9 feet deep all the way to the wall of the golf course how much water coming in is that ?? How much will it be able to hold?
The other thing that you don't get is that when you have a huge lakegoon back there the berm stretches the whole point from top to bottom. The water behind is not just 50 yards wide on the berm, more like 300 yrds maybe more. All that surface area of water behind the berm allows the lagoon to recede UNDER the berm through leaching at low tide. The USGS actually did studies to measure the [bird] fecal matter coming through via leaching.
Even as it is now , the lagoon is set up as a giant leach field and can keep from breaching with huge amounts of incoming water.
The proposed plan might expand that capability to the point that it doesn't breach through a whole season, maybe longer. No one knows for sure.

I am not good at getting pictures downloaded because I am a Technical neanderthal but go to Ecomalibu.org and find the link to the 1922 photo that I gave Bob Purvey . Not only does it show a channel finger of the lagoon extending behind the Colony but it also shows signs that the lagoon breached inside of where the Adamson house would have been had it existed . Or I can show it in Person because the UCLA Copy is grainy and is best to look at with a magnifying glass . It was photographed fairly high from a Biplane on what looks to be a fall or winter day before the lagoon had been able to breach

http://www.rmcwater.com/
This is the Company getting the sewer contract in Malibu.
Another big donor to Heal The Bay.

Marcia , Where does all the waste that has been pumped into the civic center flood plain for decades and decades end up ? How Much can the ground absorb before leaching into an above ground health hazard . Tonite I was at Ralphs getting Groceries and Wow , Did it smell like Tijuana when I was in the parking lot ! Smelled like raw sewage . During big rain events the man hole covers bubble retched smelling raw sewage towards the lagoon

Be sure to cover up when you go swimming in the Lagoon

The doors are coming off !

Sorry, Thanks Steve. Is there anywhere I can get non-biased information on this lagoon project? From reading the prior posts, seems like no one on this site will just discuss without throwing verbal bombs at one another.

HA ... Icandymalibu ,
good person to ask that question to !
You know what I say... go look for yourself. walk around at high tide and low tide...look at it from the pch bridge , from on the beach , on the foot bridges and the long path....check the whole place out.
That is the problem...nobody is just going there and looking at the treasure that we have that is going to be 're-done'...call it whatever you want...it is a HUGE project and people will make a lot of money on this project.
And when you say "I don't see why you need to do such a destructive project...it looks beautiful in there" the answer is 'it's what you don't see' substantiated with their own scientific data , self serving scientific data.
you know what i don't see in there??? a need to do this project.

If you want to learn about the lagoon , go there.
get back to me after you have gone there. if you aren't willing to do that well then it really doesn't matter to you , does it?

I guess you have to be your own judge . Hear both sides and weed out the distortions and try to figure out the facts from fiction . There are some strange underlying angles to all this and I can't just sit back and allow distortions to become fact . Both sides can have valid points . Some people fear a negative change , I see a positive change that will solve alot of on going problems that will eventually help surfers health and create a healthier ecosystem for wildlife for generations to come . Doing nothing solves nothing . I'd like to see the Osprey and the Steel Head make a come back without those Bridges intruding in a world where humans have continually encroached on a dwindling wildlife habitat . As a long time surfer here I do Not fear any Adverse affects of this project in the surf zone .
I just read in the paper today that the PCH Solstice bridge bottom will be jack hammered and bulldozed to create ladder pools for the return of the Steel Head , YEAH ! Man giving back what man has taken away !

And then check out www.ecomalibu.org , the Heal The Bay website ,The Bay Keepers website , Surfrider Foundations website and the State Parks website.
and if Andy Lyon " the dude who knows the surf " and he DOES surf well , but what he does not realize is that the waves at 3rd point can't be ruined because they have been ruined for many years by mother natures refusal to arrange the cobblestones in a beneficial order , that is why Andy surfs 1st point 99% of the time , That is why Kelly Slater doesn't surf 3rd point when he is in town , Kelly IS the DUDE that knows GOOD SURF

Steve ,
I just was out there...where were you ??
You never surf anymore.
I know how to fix the wave, you have given up on it.
drink to that !

Hey Andy I still surf but I don't surf crowded small crappy waves like you just did . I would rather travel to a surf spot that is clean , uncrowded and has quality barrels ,, Have fun with all the Kooks

Thank you Alessandra,
I appreciate your input, but like so many others you inject statements that vilify either the proponents or opponents. You suggest that I visit the opponents site, but you don't give alternative sites to explore the proponents POV. I understand that you are opposed to the project,but you stated that the proponents of the project "will intentionally harm" wildlife? So are you saying that the proponents want to kill animals? Admittedly, I am not a scientist, just a poor, broke (potential employers take note:) Poly-Sci/History major, but much of what I have learned over the years has been displayed in real time on this site. I guess that's why I'm intrigued. I am neither for nor against the project itself. However, it is really interesting to see some of the theory I've learned play out in real time. This site is a great timeline! I don't know if the opponents are right or wrong, but it is fascinating to see one of the first political axioms I learned unfold in front of my eyes. Watching the project opponents switch from attacking the project to attacking the proponents as soon as the ruling was announced was a classic case of "if you can't attack the message, attack the messenger." And I'm nor saying that the opponents are the only ones who have done this. That's just the most recent thread I picked up. I thank you for your input and I hope you don't feel that I am "picking" on you! I admire your courage and spirit and your willingness to speak out!

Oh I forgot to ask you Andy ,, How is Andy going to single handedly fix the wave ? So you admit , The wave is Broken ? Then don't say you want to protect the wave from being ruined because it already is .. Obiviously it is clear that just the mere fact of the berm being breached at 3rd doesn't fix the wave or are you saying you have fixed the broken wave ? Is it Fixed Andy ? Did you make the wave a world class wave ? Do you think you have the power to fix it all by yourself ?

Andy I didn't know this . Andy since you know how to FIX the wave, WHY WHY oh Why didn't you fix the wave 20 years ago ? what are you waiting for ? Fix it Already . Now ! Do it ! You have my blessings There is a moderate south swell due Nov 9 - 11 Can it be fixed before then ? Do you need help ? Can I help ? What's involved ?
If it gets fixed I will be out there every day . It 'll save me a trip to Tahiti or Mexico every year . Can you imagine only surfing crowded 1st point ? How sad ! but now you will have repaired 2nd and 3rd ? that will be very good . thank God

Woods,
Everyone knows that having the breach point at the top of the point forms a better wave, but for some reason it has been made illegal to maintain its location. And for some reason you want to throw any hope of getting the right to take back control of the breach to these landscape architects that don't surf.
Wouldn't it be nice if we could just start with the breach and have complete control of the location to see what would happen first without digging anything up?
Now that would be an experiment that would be worth doing.
Maybe the good Dr. Mark Gold should take be considering The Hippocratic Oath:
Primum non nocere... "First, do no harm"

Just having the breach at the top does not guarantee a better wave , It only makes the possibility somewhat greater , Although I agree that the breach should at 3rd before a BIG storm it is over rated to think that having it breached year around would rearrange Cobblestones in a beneficial formation , Just because you point the hose in the desirable direction doesn't mean the PSI's are great enough to move rock , You need a Mack Daddy Flood , not a dribble ,, As it is now , the breach has turned east and will continue to do so unless a mack daddy Storm blows out the berm , With slack half moon tides and little to no water coming down the creek the breach has a good possibility of closing up again . If it stays open it will eventually pour out at first point , You have to get permits to keep bulldozing the breach to get it stay at the top . But You know the Fish and Game / Audobon / Environmentalist will have a fit because it is natural for the Lagoon to become full being that it sustains a temporary natural eco system that benefits wildlife and the Pacific Flyover

And this is a perfect example of still spelling names wrong!

Poor iCandyMalibu! ...just trying to help you out: Also check out what was said at the April City Council meeting - just go to the City site and click on archives of the videos and go to the date (I think April 11) listen to what the scientists say. (it's near the end of the Council meeting).
And really with all good intentions, can a biologist really locate ALL the creatures that will be harmed - think about it. PLEASE!
Find out about the goby and how it survives and the type of water it really needs...
Find out about the snowy plover and how it makes its nest - and the season it mates
Find out when this "restoration" will be happening (then compare to the nesting seasons, etc.)
Find out about all the native plants that will be destroyed
I encourage you to do your best icandymalibu to find out the facts for yourself and don't listen to any of us here... you find out for YOU and you make your own decision.

I don't know why Steve has to put people down and call them liars!?
We all have our own opinion - that's all there is to it. No need to slander others!
Just find as much info as possible and check it out forwards and backwards... then make YOUR decision from what you decide not what we say!
Good luck!

Steve, I don't think Alessandra is lying. She is just very passionate about her beliefs. I admire her beliefs, as much as I admire yours. I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt and assume that she was being sincere about the "Poor iCandyMalibu" statement. Although It did sound a tad condescending, or maybe just sarcastic. Anyway, both sides should be able to back up their claims! That's what's so frustrating about this conversation. Too many accusations with no factual information to back them up!

I walk Westwards almost daily and I have never seen the variety of life that I see at Malibu Lagoon. Yes, there are hundreds of Seagulls. Where are all of the hundreds of types of birds, the weasels, the goby, the heron and the many others? The Zuma Lagoon is a totally different ecosystem and should be treated as such.